Podcast - Episode 2
All right, everybody. Well, welcome to episode two of Parenting Through Neurodiversity. I'm Dr. Ed Callahan, and this is Amy J.,
who again is joining me, uh, to discuss all kinds of things relative to parenting a neurodivergent teen or young adult. Hi there. Um, welcome. Welcome again. Thank you, uh, for your time. I really, really appreciate it always. Um, so, I don't know. I guess part of what I think we need to do is talk about like why are we doing this, right?
Like, what- Right ... what's the point? Why are we doing these podcasts and trying to get, you know, uh, some information out there. Um, for one, I, I just, my heart of hearts is I really wanna help families who have neurodivergent teens or young adults. And, um, so I know it can be very challenging. And again, like we said last time, it's, a lot of times the parenting advice is just the opposite of what traditional parenting would recommend or maybe what you're getting advice from in the, the typical parenting books, or even, you know, therapists or [00:03:00] other professionals out there would be giving more, um, traditional parenting advice, which is a lot of times not helpful and may actually be somewhat harmful to a neurodivergent teen or young adult.
So- And I would say it's almost always not-
Right ... not gonna work. I'm trying to be a little politically correct, you know? At least that's been my experience. Yeah. I'm trying to be a little bit politically correct by saying- Yeah ... it's all bad advice out there. Don't do it, you know? But yeah, I mean, I, I agree. And again, that's, uh, something that I learned over years and years and years of practicing and just seeing, um, you know, how a lot of the common and typical things were just not working.
In fact, were just making things worse. And it's, it's, it's tough because, um- My wife, who's a, a school principal, was just telling me about a story of a kid who she absolutely knows is getting misdiagnosed by a local, uh, psychiatrist. They went and see it, and, um, again, the, the typical diagnosis from the testing was, uh, very strong attention deficit hyperactivity disorder, [00:04:00] but then they go and ignore all of the, uh, autism spectrum symptoms and go with the diagnosis of oppositional defiant disorder.
Which I'm just like "No, that's the worst." You know what I mean? Because then the kid gets treated like he or she is oppositional or defiant, when really it's about emotional overwhelm, it's about being flooded, it's about, uh, you know, not being able to manage the, the stresses that they're under in the moment.
And so the problem with the oppositional defiant diagnosis is it's, uh, like a challenge to a parent a lot of times. Like, okay, you just gotta out boundary this kid. Like, you just gotta hold stronger boundaries. You gotta be firm on the consequences. You gotta take away privileges. Um, you know, ground them, whatever, take their devices away.
And for a, uh, a neurodivergent kid, that's the absolute wrong thing to do because a lot of times, um, you know, they're not reacting, they're not being oppositional for the same reasons. You know what I mean? They're, they're being oppositional from an overwhelmed position [00:05:00] or not being able to transition well or, um, you know, not being able to motion- to regulate their emotions well enough.
And so treating them as if they're oppositionally defiant is exactly the opposite of, of, of what they need. So, um- And we, we had a very similar experience where our, one of our children was diagnosed very young with ADHD But the autism diagnosis didn't come until later. And we had a lot of difficulty 'cause we did think we, there was some more boundary stuff we could do, and it always backfired, and we didn't quite understand why until the autism diagnosis came along.
And then it was much easier, but we realized so much of what we'd been doing was just absolutely the wrong... It was like throwing gasoline on a fire. Right. And it was painful. It was painful for the whole household. Yeah. And especially for my child, which is the most upsetting. Yeah, for sure. And, and again, being the best parent you can, you're trying to do what- what's recommended, what all the books say to do, and, and all the traditional- Right
advice and what [00:06:00] you experienced as a child and, you know, what you've been telling... what your friends and family are telling you to do. And it's all the wrong advice for that particular, um, situation. So yeah, and I guess I would say to anyone listening to this, if, if your teen or young adult has a diagnosis of ADHD, then it's statistically likely that they are- Mm
on the autism spectrum as well, or vice versa, particularly the other way around. If they have an autism diagnosis, then it's almost, almost guaranteed that they have some level of attention deficit disorder. Um, it's not always the case, but those two things go together very, very commonly. So even if, um, they're not really showing really strong autism, uh, characteristics or whatever, but they do have, uh, ADHD, then it, uh, you know, it's likely it's there at some degree or another, so, and, and vice versa.
If they have autism, then it's almost, almost... it's much more likely that they're gonna have ADHD. So Um, but again, so what I see happen a lot in schools with school psychologists and, you know, and, and psychiatrists or whatever out [00:07:00] there, that they will see the ADHD, and that's a little bit more commonly diagnosed and, you know- Mm
there's probably even some better assessments for it and things like that. So it, it's one that is, uh, commonly diagnosed. But then they go to Oppositional Defiant Disorder instead of, uh, trying to understand the autism spectrum. For whatever reason, that one, uh, gets overlooked. So, uh- Well, and again, the problem is as a parent-
so just, just pay attention, right? Yeah ... you don't know what you don't know. So- Right. Yeah ... it's really hard to- And again, you go to a, a, a school psychologist or a, a psychologist in general who's doing the testing, or you get a diagnosis from a therapist or a psychiatrist, then yeah, I mean, what else are you supposed to do?
You, you went to the expert and they gave you the information and gave you the assessment, and, uh, unfortunately a lot of them missed the, missed the boat on the ADHD-autism, uh, combination. So, so again, particularly if you have an ADHD diagnosis with an O- uh, Oppositional Defiant diagnosis, I'd say that's a red flag right there.
Make sure, double-check, do [00:08:00] whatever you gotta do. Get a second opinion, third opinion, whatever. Do some research and find out for yourself and make sure, uh, because there are reasons to have, uh, an Oppositional Defiant diagnosis, um, and that is a surreal thing. But, uh, if ADHD is present, then it makes me more suspicious that it's more autism than, uh, Oppositional Defiant.
So, uh, anyways, just, uh, food for thought and, you know, pay attention and, and double-check on that kind of stuff. So- Any diagnoses you get, make sure it makes sense to you. Yeah. Yeah. And it feels right to your gut as a parent as well. And, um, you know, again, it's hard to... Really the responsibility does unfortunately lie on you as a parent because, you know, the, the, the experts will have their biases and their opinions and things like that and then, um, you know, and, and you just gotta, I guess, kinda do a little bit of research on your own.
Well, you know, I'd, I'd definitely recommend that But, uh, also, um, just make sure it fits with your experience with your child. [00:09:00] And again, it's hard. That's a hard one to... I wanna put a big asterisk by it because, um, an autism meltdown or that, uh, pervasive or pathological demand avoidance or pervasive drive for autonomy looks like oppositionality you know, that, that PDA, the pathological demand avoidance, I'll just call it demand avoidance, um, that looks like oppositionality, but it's just coming from a different place.
So that's why it's super important to understand, because if you know that your, your child is on the autism spectrum, you realize that they are struggling with transitions, you know, the, um, emotional overwhelm, the way they process information takes them longer and they need more time, whereas, uh, an oppositional kid is doing it for the o- for a whole different set of reasons.
And, you know, I, I could go on, on that forever as well, but, um, the true oppositional defiant, uh, teen or young adult does need the hard boundaries. I mean, that's the right way to approach that. But a teen [00:10:00] or young adult on the autism spectrum, it's, it's, uh, it's not, um, it's not the same. It's not for the same reasons or motivations, and so it's important to treat it very differently or I wanna- I would say very differently
I wanna come back to the PDA just 'cause it's all about me, and I don't have a lot of experience with that- Of course ... so I wanna understand it better. But before we do that, um, I mean, I know some about your background. Obviously, I know you have a doctorate and all that kind of stuff, but I wonder if you could, you know, kind of tell me about your work experience and kind of how you got where you are.
Um, yeah, I s- I, uh, out of graduate school started private practice and was working with families. Um, and then, you know, after probably eight or nine years or so s- uh, I, um, had some good friends and colleagues that were working in a wilderness program that they had set up, and so they wanted me to come join them.
So eventually I said, "Sure, why not?" And went out there and was, you know, uh, being a therapist in a wilderness, uh, treatment [00:11:00] program. And, uh, that was a great experience for me. I mean, I love to camp and hike and all that kind of stuff, and then to do therapy and camp and get paid and all that good stuff, it was like a great combination, uh, of everything that I like to do.
Um, and so that, that was a, a big learning experience. And again, kids on the spectrum were coming through. It wasn't quite as known way back in the day when I was doing that. And so, you know, there'd be s- things like quirky kids or awkward kids or something like that. You know what I mean? Or, or s- kids with social s- social, uh, social struggles or social difficulties.
Um, and so it was... You know, again, that's when I started really, um, seeing that, okay, these kids are different and they need... They're not, they're not reacting or acting from the same head space as some of the kids that were oppositional or that were having substance issues and things like that. So, uh, I started to realize that, yeah, we, we need to find a whole different approach to working with, uh, these kind of, uh, teens that we were working with.
And then help educating the families on, okay, [00:12:00] yeah, this looks this way, but this is more what's going on. And then once the parents started to understand what was happening neurologically or that this was a, um, neurological processing difference, that, that helped them shift their mindset about how to interact with their kid, and- Right
they would understand them differently. 'Cause again, if you think your kid's being oppositional, then you wanna kind of push back. But if you realize, oh, they're struggling for a different reason, then, you know, you feel less inclined- It's far less triggering for a parent You don't wanna, you don't wanna- Yeah
you know, get in a power struggle, um, with a kid when you realize it's not necessarily their willful decision to, uh, be having a hard time in that moment. So, um, after wilderness, I was able to, uh, be the executive director of, um, a boarding school That, uh, again, was working with, uh, teens and their families.
And then I, uh, all along was hoping to be able to start a, uh, therapeutic boarding school that was specific to helping kids with [00:13:00] ADHD and autism at the time. So I believe we were probably the first, uh, therapeutic boarding school that was, uh, geared towards working with kids on the autism spectrum and for ADHD specifically.
So, um, I had the ability- Was this back in the '90s or early 2000s? Uh, yeah, mid, mid, mid 2000s. Um- Mid 2000s. Okay. Yeah. And so, uh, got that up and, and going, and was, uh, one of the founding partners there. And, you know, our sole intent, uh, was to create an environment that was gonna, you know, provide a healthy environment for, um, kids that were neurodivergent.
I mean, that wasn't really a term back in the day but, um, you know, a place that would be a safe place for these kids to be, and that we would understand them and provide all the educational supports that they needed and the therapeutic supports that they needed, and help them learn all the social, um, you know, social interactions and help them learn and, and grow through that.
And, you know, as a parent, you can understand [00:14:00] how challenging it can be at times to have one, uh, kid on the spectrum in your household. Yes. But try, try a school full of them. It gets a little bit tricky and stuff. Yes. Yeah, it was a- I can imagine ... it was a big learning curve and we had our hands full. And I think, uh, you know, it was, it was a really good experience.
Um- At, uh, some point I, I broke away from that several years down the road and, uh, you know, definitely look back on it as a really good experience. And, and, uh, so, um, you know, really had the opportunity to start that from scratch and get it up and running. Um, and then, you know, we were bought out by another program, so I exited, exited at that point, so it wasn't my baby anymore, so - Yes.
But, uh, so yeah, but again, trying to really put my mind and heart and soul into like how do we create an environment that's healthy for, uh, kids that are on the autism spectrum and that are struggling with ADHD and other learning disabilities. You know, like I said, the pathological demand avoidance, which isn't [00:15:00] technically a diagnosis, but it's more like a subset of, uh, autism spectrum disorder.
Um, and- Well, and the reason I asked when the timing was is because there was a, a while there where I felt like there were a lot more resources and programs available for, uh, neurodivergent kids, and it seems like now after the pandemic, things have really trimmed down. Um, and that's why I think your program is so important because it gives folks who, you know, may have gone to a wilderness, I mean, maybe not quite that extreme, or to a boarding school, but, you know, something that they can, um, tap into and use on a regular basis to kind of get that all-around family support, you know, where you learn about, you know, not just, you know, what's going on with your child, but how you can create an environment that helps support them so that, as you said, when, when they push back, the immediate response is, "Oh, I'm gonna push back too."
'Cause, you know, you're having a bad day or a good [00:16:00] day, you've got your own emotions that you're trying to... But the minute you start to understand they're not doing this to be difficult, they're doing this because there's something wrong for them. Like, they, they're- They need support. Yeah, they, they would do- Right.
They're overstimulated ... if they could handle it, yeah, if they could handle it- Right ... they would be handling it. I don't, you know- Right ... and again, most kids, you know, if they can handle the things, they will. If they're struggling, it's, it's because they're overwhelmed or they've got, you know, uh, they need additional support somehow.
So- Well, and what I realized as a parent is when my kids get extremely dysregulated, that means they're having a heck of a lot worse day than I am. Right. And really what they need is to understand that, you know, they've got a soft place to land. And usually once they understand that, it does help deescalate it.
I mean, you go through a, a few bad moments, but ultimately, hopefully they calm down. So- Yeah. And that's, you know, that's something that we'll have to come back and talk to probably multiple times is that emotional regulation and, and managing your own emotions as a way to model that and also, like you said, to create that safe, that safe [00:17:00] landing for them because if you're losing it- They're already having a hard time regulating themselves as it is, but then if you, y- you know, are dysregulated yourself or getting mad or upset or frustrated, then that's just gonna add fuel to the fire to them as well, right?
Yeah, there's that gasoline. So then everybody's gonna spin out. Yeah, and so then it becomes a, you know, just gets w- everyone's kind of feeding each other and, into this spiral. And just so nobody out there feels bad about themselves, I've done that a billion times. Oh, yeah. Even when I knew better. Yeah.
Sometimes it just gets away from you. I mean, it- No, absolutely ... this is tough. Right. And, you know, again, it, it does take a lot of practice and effort and thought and kind of, you know, I guess, use the term mindfulness. You know, like being mindful of what you're gonna do, or, "Hey, this is starting to get, uh- Uh, difficult or, you know, my son or daughter is starting to have a meltdown right now, and I take that space.
Okay, I need to, I need to really be careful right now because this is easy for me to get pulled into. So, um, and- Well, and I, you know, there have been multiple times where I say to my husband, "I'm tagging out. You gotta tag in." Yeah. I, I, I don't have the emotional [00:18:00] control right now to deal with this. Um, not everybody has that luxury, but if you do, you know, that's certainly a way to go.
Yeah. And again, we, we talk about a lot of different strategies and things like that through, um, the programs and everything that we're trying to get together here. So, um, yeah, so I guess there was a lot of questions in there. Let's see if I can go back and answer some of those. Um, one is the sense of pandemic.
Yeah, I think a lot of, uh, like, say, those wilderness resources and, uh, therapeutic boarding school programs and things like that, there's been a tremendous shift in away from that. And, you know, that's probably thanks to a lot of Netflix documentaries as well in terms of programs that were really doing bad stuff.
There were definitely some programs out there that were, uh, horrendous. Uh, but, you know, if you notice that a lot of those, uh, documentaries were for programs that were way back in the- Decades ago ... late '90s. Yeah. And so then it's tough because that's impacting the current programs that, you know... I know a lot of really good, solid programs with good people running them that, uh, are, are closing for financial reasons.
Do you know what I mean? It's [00:19:00] just like... And I, I, I don't blame parents for that, do you know what I mean? But, um, but sometimes those programs are very necessary and very important. And, um, but yeah, and again, the programs that aren't doing well or aren't supervising the kids well, um, or are being abusive certainly should not be in existence for sure.
I want to be clear about that. Right. And having been in that, uh, you know, in those situations and in those programs and, you know, running them, like I understand the challenges and how difficult it can be to operate a program like that and to do it well. So, uh, I get they can be tough. Um, so even the good programs that are trying hard may make, may make mistakes, but the ones that were bad actors, that, that's just, you know, unacceptable and definitely should be on a Netflix documentary for sure.
So. Yes. Yes. Um, but, uh, so all that being said, yeah, there's, there's been a, a pretty dramatic shift in terms of, uh, I guess, where parents can go for support and what they feel comfortable doing. So- I would say it's a void, my opinion. Yeah. And, and- But it's almost a void ... [00:20:00] you know, again, I think the pendulum will probably swing.
There'll probably be some middle ground where the really good programs will still, still be alive and well. Um, but it's definitely... Uh, there's less options than there used to be, for sure. Um, so, uh, so after doing wilderness and, you know, running, um- Being the executive director of two boarding schools and one wilderness program.
Then I, uh, started doing, uh, in-home interventions. And so, um, I would travel across the country, meet with families for a weekend, and, uh, go over some curriculum and, and set up some parenting plans and things like that. And then, uh, follow up with about four months of virtual coaching, um, kinda like what we're doing right now.
So it'd be an in-home visit with, uh, four months of, um, weekly coaching that we would do from there. So, and you know, again, these were high-end, very expensive programs, you know what I mean? And, and I understand like, you know, the, the wilderness programs are super [00:21:00] expensive. The therapy and boarding school, they're very expensive.
Yeah. It's not an option for everybody. Right. And, and it's... There's reasons for that. Those are very expensive programs to run and operate. Um, but there was also, you know, obviously they were businesses and they were making money too. So there's that part of it. But, um, so even the in-home interventions that I was doing Uh, were very expensive.
That was about $18,000 plus expenses for the families to, you know, have me come out for the weekend and- Wow ... um, you know, follow up with the, with the coaching. And, uh, so... But, you know, the main point of that was to help kids transition home from the wilderness programs and the therapeutic boarding school.
So, uh, and, and that was an interesting niche to be in because, uh, I really felt that was an important place to be because the, you know, the parents had put a major investment in wilderness and then a major investment in, in both time and money in, uh, these treatment programs, and then their son or daughter would come home.
And, you know, that's, that's a difficult transition coming back home for the teen or the young [00:22:00] adult, but also for the family. And so to support them through that process was, was very, very important. Um, so, uh, you know, just as- It would be very easy to fall back into the old patterns, I'm sure. Yeah. Oh, absolutely.
Yeah, and- Without some guidance. Yeah. And the, you know, parent- uh, all those, those dynamics that really because of the separation they didn't get a chance to fully work through- Mm ... were kind of dormant and alive and well when they they all got back together again. Yes. Sadly, yes. And so, yeah, so there was a lot of kind of helping them, you know, understand these patterns and their, the, even the parental PTSD, and the kid would have PTSD from all the challenges they were having before.
Um, and so helping them work through that and, you know, have a successful transition home. And so, you know, that was very satisfying work for sure. Um, and that again gave me a lot of perspective, which is awesome for me as a, as a therapist and, you know, now as, more as a coach. But to be able to go into someone's home and, and see the family in their natural habitat and kind of get a feel for, you know, the dynamics of the [00:23:00] home and the pets and, uh, you know, just the way things were operating, there's a lot of information that I would get as a therapist walking into that, um, situation that would help me be able to tailor what I was doing to help the families.
And so that was a really kind of unique part of that. And that was also kind of a big, you know, it's a big part of the expense of, of doing a program like that. But, um, so Was doing that probably since about 2013, uh, is when I was really doing the in-home interventions and, and things along those lines. So, uh, but again, I recognize that this is not accessible to a lot of people.
You know what I mean? So I've been doing this for a very long time, and I feel like I just have gained so much information on how to help, uh, you know, really teens and, and families and young adults anyways, but particularly, uh, with the neurodivergent kids, where that's a... it just needs to be a whole different approach.
And so I've created this program, um, putting all that information together and really tailoring it to, uh, kids that are [00:24:00] on the autism spectrum or dealing with ADHD or non-verbal learning disorder and, you know, all the things that go along with, uh, with being neurodivergent. And creating a tailored program designed to specifically help parents, um, and, you know, help parents navigate and understand and, you know, not make some of the same mistakes that, that are common that I see with a lot of families.
And so, uh, Neurodiversity University is really designed to provide a cost-effective and more efficient way to get, uh, my knowledge and expertise into video courses, into live, uh, group coaching, into parent support communities, into mini courses and YouTube videos and podcasts. And I just, you know, feel like it's time for me to try to take all of this knowledge and experience and make it accessible and affordable and efficient so that a lot more people can [00:25:00] have access to, uh, these years and years and years and years of experience of working with these families.
And I, you know, I say that, I'm not... I, like, I don't wanna be like I'm trying to brag. I just have done that. You know, I mean, there's a, there's a good saying in Spanish that like the devil knows more from being old than he knows from being the devil kind of thing. So like- Yes. If you give this long enough, you- I've never heard that before, but it makes sense.
It's true. You learn a lot along the, along the lines and, you know, again, um- You know, so I just want, want people to know that my intention is to take this and, you know, find ways to get the cost down and, you know, take the knowledge and the things that I know are most important, and some of the common pitfalls, and help you navigate around those, and help you learn new strategies and new techniques that actually work, uh, so that you don't have to go through the heartbreak of, you know, even getting to the point of having, um, an out-of-home placement.
I mean, sometimes you, you have to and you, you need to when you get to that point, you need that level of support. Um, but my hope is that we can, you know, work together to [00:26:00] prevent, um, those kind of placements and really, you know, big picture, just to have a happy home and family and family life- Right ... and help your, your teen or young adult launch into independence and, you know, get to where they need to be and where they need to go.
So helping you to support them to, to get where they need to go and to launch eventually. Um, but also, you know, really kind of to play the long game, that you still have a relationship with your son or daughter after all the dust settles- Right ... and they're adults and they're more mature and they're, you know, taking care of themselves on, on their own, that they want you around or they wanna...
You get invited to the wedding, that you get to hang out with the grandkids, you know? All that kind of stuff. I mean, that's kind of the long- You get to enjoy your adult children, yes. Yeah, you get the benefits of being a parent. You know, instead of, you know, if, uh, if it's too rough and you get alienated, then, you know, you may lose the opportunity to have the actual fruits of parenthood, uh, so, yeah.
Which isn't good for anybody. But one of the things that, one of the words that you said [00:27:00] several times that I really, I think is important for people to understand, 'cause it's what I really hang my hat on as a parent, is you used the word tailor. And that's so critical, because there's just so much information out there.
It's, it's so hard to sort through it all. I know I said this on a previous podcast. I can't, I can't read a parenting book. I just can't. I'm a big reader, but I don't know, there's something about doing that, as I'm reading it, I'm thinking of all the things I shoulda done or I coulda done. It, it just brings up all these, all really negative feelings.
And the idea that the training, you know, really targets Parents who have kids that are neurodiverse in these specific ways, um, and the fact that you can kind of go back and look at it. And something about having somebody explain it to me, it, it just lasts longer for me. Um, but also, you know, having the parent groups, being able to talk through things, you know, you doing occasional question and answer sessions.
All that kind of stuff [00:28:00] comes together to make it, again, something you can implement every day. Because, you know, so many parents out there have lived in crisis for so long or have walked on eggshells and just think they're the only parents in the whole world who are going through this. And, you know, you really don't know what's going on behind closed doors.
After we had some of our experiences with our kids, every time I went out, someone would come up to me and say, "Well, I haven't shared this with anybody, but this is what's going on with our family," or, "This is..." You know, there are a lot of people out there who are just suffering, and it would just be nice to just help them.
And in general, it's better for society. Everybody gets a leg up, you know, so that we don't start ha- And I think a lot of these, unfortunately, I mean, I'm gonna, I'm gonna age us, Ed, but you know, we're Gen X. And I have no problem saying I have ADHD, but I didn't get diagnosed till my children got diagnosed.
Because when I was growing up, you weren't asked to do algebra in seventh grade. Right. And you weren't asked to sit still for eight hours and get 30 minutes of recess. I mean, we were out doing [00:29:00] stuff all the time, and you weren't, you, you didn't have the distraction of a phone. And the news was on from 6:00 to 6:15, and that's all you saw, you know.
It wasn't like every time there's a school shooting, it's coming across your phone. These kids have it hard. There's a lot to deal with. And then as parents, we're not, we haven't been schooled in any of this, because most of us didn't grow up with it. So- Yeah ... again, the- Yeah, and, and the way we were parented-
the tail end of this program- The way we were parented- Yes ... in this generation is, you know, just, "Good luck," you know? "Go have fun. Go explore the dirt." Here, I'm drinking my Tab. Here's a cookie. Yeah. Go out for four hours and come back later. Yes. Yeah. That was pretty much it. And then we somehow turned into the helicopter parents or whatever, or the snowplow parents.
Somehow we, we overcompensate somehow. But, but yeah, like you're saying, the information and everything we have to go through. And again, as, when you're parenting a neurodivergent kid, things can get out there. You know what I mean? So, so sometimes you're embarrassed to even talk to friends or family about what's going on, you know what I mean?
Because it is so hard sometimes- Especially if they're gonna be judgmental ... sometimes. I mean, not to... But we all have those members of [00:30:00] our family that I'm sure they mean well- Yeah ... but, and particularly it always seems like, like it's, uh, people who even ha- haven't had kids in a really long time, or never had kids at all, who have lots of advice for you.
And I, I do, I honestly think they're coming from a good place and they're trying to be helpful, but they're so off the mark. And as- Right ... but as a parent who's already struggling and not sure if they're doing the right thing, when that advice comes at you, you do start to think, "Well, maybe it's me. Maybe they're right.
Maybe I should do what they're saying." You know? It's, it's very confusing. Yeah, and particularly since it's a little outside the norm, again, like usually some of the interventions that you need to do, or the adjustments you need to do, or the accommodations you need to make are way outside the norm of what traditional parenting would recommend.
And so yeah, a lot of times it's like, "Well, why don't you just hold that boundary? Why don't you just take that phone away? Or why don't you do this or that," right? And, and, uh, again, it's the, the, "Well, if I did take the phone away, watch, you know, watch what happens." You know what I mean? The, the really blow up here, and we're gonna have a major meltdown.
Yes, then it's five hours- [00:31:00] So then, yeah ... of my day instead of just- So, yeah ... 15 minutes, right. Right. Mm-hmm. Yep. It's always easier- So- ... to, yeah. Yeah, so we can, again, like in the program, we're talking about all those kind of things. Like, it's not that you don't hold boundaries, there's just ways to do it that are more effective, that are less likely to trigger the meltdowns and the blowups and, and the power struggles.
And so there are things that can help. I, I, I definitely can tell you that there's things that, that, um, you can learn that will help you as a parent to be able to navigate that kind of stuff. So, and again, as a parent sometimes it's like that all or nothing. Either I hold a boundary or I just let them get away with murder kind of thing.
You know what I mean? And, and there's, you can, there's ways to do both, right? So, uh, that's, that's part of why I think it is so different. And again, we were talking about this before, like there's traditional parenting and then there's parenting a neurodivergent kid, and then within there, there's your, your kids in there somewhere.
So just because you know what one neurodivergent kid looks like or what works for one of those kids, it may be the exact opposite advice for your particular teen or young adult. So, so there's always that, um, [00:32:00] balance between not only adapting to what a neurodivergent kid needs, but also then your very specific neurodivergent, uh, teen or young adult.
And there's Maggie making a cameo. Hi, Maggie. I'll have to introduce Maggie sometime. We'll have to introduce our, our, our pet friends, uh, at some point- Yes ... in the future. Yes, yes. I have two, you have two. Yep. So- Um, but yeah, so we cover a lot of things. But, uh, what I, you know, again, maybe the takeaway from this is, uh, y- you know, my intent is to get all this information and experience and knowledge out to people in a way that's affordable and more accessible, and provide support for parents that just don't have access to that or don't have connections with, uh, you know, um, specialists who know, uh, you know, have been through the experiences I've been through and understand this, this, uh, these, these presentations and the, the nuances and the ways to navigate around things and all of that, that really traditional parenting just, just doesn't address or addresses in a way that's [00:33:00] not productive for your neurodivergent teen or young adult so.
Um, but yeah, so we hit, again, a lot of topics that we need to come back and, and do later, like the emotional- Yes ... regulation and the accommodations, uh, versus enabling. And I- That's a tough one ... always crack up when I hear the word enable. That word turned into a dirty word somehow, and I think it was more of the substance abuse recovery people who did that.
'Cause you want to enable your kid to do things, but healthy things, right? And of course, what we're talking about enabling now means you're helping them do something that's not healthy, right? So we wanna enable healthy behaviors and, uh, discourage unhealthy ones. But yeah, so accommodating- Well, it, it's-
and enabling ... it's such a balance because once you understand a little bit more about parenting, um, y- your neurodiverse child, then there's this, well, I, I wanna push, but, but how hard do I push? I don't wanna push s- so hard that I'm, you know, making it worse, but then h- have I now, because [00:34:00] it's, you know, things are kind of stable and smooth, am I going the wrong direction and not doing enough and therefore, you know, they'll, they'll be in my basement forever.
And, you know, that- and that's probably a, a, you know, might be the case for some of us. But, you know, we want them to have as independent and healthy lives as they can. Yeah. And I, you know, I know that some- And even if they are gonna... If they do need to live in your basement, like how, again, what... how much do you, how much independence do you push or encourage or, you know what I mean?
Yeah, so. Right. But yeah, that, that's the thing. So that idea of, um, knowing when to push, how much to push and, you know, in what cases to and what cases not to, I mean, it's, it's super complicated, right? And again- There's things that you would do very differently for a neurodivergent kid, and then there's things, uh, within neurodivergence that you need to know.
So one is kind of learning about the entire neurodivergence idea, and then within that, how does that apply to your specific teen or young adult? And so that, that's, that's a complicated process, but it can be done. I promise. There's things you can do. I'll do my best to make that simple and understandable [00:35:00] and provide you with support along the way as you go through this, and we'll do our best to provide free resources like the podcast and YouTube videos and things along that.
And then, um, maybe some low-cost parent support and mini courses and things like that that can go along to help, help you, um, get the level of support that you need all the way up to my flagship program of Neurodiversity University or the mastermind course, whatever you want to say, where you get, you know, twice weekly, uh, hour-and-a-half group coaching meetings.
You'll get the full curriculum and, um, the parents, uh, the insider parent support group can be so... Like the mastermind support group, if you will. So that'll allow access to me more directly so. So hopefully levels of support along the way and, uh, hopefully, um, you'll be able to find the level of support that works best for you and your family, and I'm happy to help out in any way, so please reach out.
Um, probably the best way to do that is go to my website at neurodiversity-u.com, [00:36:00] and there's a free training there, and at the end of the training, um, there's a way to schedule an appointment with me. Uh, so if you, uh, wanna discuss joining any of our programs, please feel free to reach out to me that way, or you can reach me at the email in the, in the show notes at, uh, [email protected].
Um, so again, thank you for joining us again. We will keep trying to crank these out and, uh, please let us know if you have specific ideas or things you want us to tackle directly or, you know, send us any questions that you want us to address and we'll see if we can, um, you know, answer some of those directly, even if we can, or at least batch them into general questions that we're receiving.
So thank you for joining us, and we will see you sometime, hopefully, in the near future. See you next time. Amy, thanks again. Appreciate it. Sure thing. All right. Take care. Bye everybody.
